Vectorworks Newbie issue 2

Comment

Comment by Joshua Lee on November 30, 2011 at 7:19am

Great, Everyone has been so helpful. I have a clearer grasp on the differences now. Francois thank you greatly for your simplified explination it certainly developed a better understanding of each of these concepts.

Don I appreciate your kander and share in your belief that it would be impossible to jump in without practice and expect to be productive. I am currently working through the getting started disks sent with the Vectorworks software and am having trouble weeding through the mispellings, wrong dimensions, and skipped steps. I am going to continue to try and work through them. All I can say is kudos to any company that has there manuals proof read before sending them out.

Comment by Charles Hunter on November 20, 2011 at 10:21am

I have been using VW for a number of years but I can still relate to what you are wresting with.  I had the same struggle way back w/ version 9.0 and inspite of all the changes to the program over the years this fundament concept is difficult for people to grasp and seems event more difficult for users of AUTOCAD.  All this said I will attempt to explain in simplified terms that helped me.  1st you need to remember VW is a 3D modeling program and you are making assemblies from componets.  Lets take a simple house for example.  Think about how you would go about building the house.  1st you would build the foundation, 2nd the floor system that sets on top the foundation, 3rd the walls that go on top the floor system, and 4th the roof that goes on top the walls.  Thus each one of these would be a layer.  Now go back to the foundation.  The foundation is made up of a number of components and for this case assume the basement is going to be finished, IE: footings, foundation masonry walls, floor beam, support columns, windows, doors, interior framed walls, millwork, plumbing fixtures, etc.  Each one of these components should be in a class.   Now when it comes time doing the presentation drawings or sheets.  You would have a foundation plan that would only show the foundation walls and footings, thus these classed would be turned on and the other classes turned off.  Another presentation sheet would be the basement floor plan,  on this the all the classes except the footing class would be turned on.  You would continue this process for the rest of the building.  You your thinking needs to be you are building something electronicly and not putting lines in on electronic paper.  Once you master this concept the great thing about VW is - if you can't draw it you can't build it.  Hope this helps.

Comment by Dave Olufs on November 19, 2011 at 3:57pm

"Without Classes, it would be tedious to have different graphic attributes for plumbing, millwork, and lighting..."

Having used only layers, I really simplify things...  Use the lavatory as an example: I put it on one layer... typically on plumbing or millwork layer but not both.  Both are need to be seen together to be valid AND I rarely shut if off, except for structural plans.  I've never shown lights with a lavatory/millwork combination. But it's nice to know I can do it with a symbol in VW AND still control the individual attributes.

With my current application, graphic attributes are whatever I assign to those graphic elements within the group.  I could have different colors, line weights, fill patterns/colors, etc.  And I could have any number of 2d elements/groups assigned to a different layer, say plumbing.  That way when I need to hide plumbing or gray it out, I could do it with one click selection in the layers control box.  I can not however, group elements of different layers such as plumbing, millwork, electrical, specialty items, etc.  This sounds unique to VW.

Note, my example above is related to PowerCADD.  

ArchiCAD, my other and less used application is more difficult to gray out as elements are controlled by assigning and changing default colors.

Anyways, thanks for the clarification...  It's cleared up a lot.

Comment by Dave Olufs on November 19, 2011 at 3:33pm

It's like a light turned on... but don't ask me to elaborate.  I will study your valued response.  Many thanks...!

Comment by François Lévy on November 19, 2011 at 12:21pm

You may be getting tripped up on nomenclature. What Vectorworks calls Classes ("what") others call Layers (e.g., AutoCAD).

In your wall example, you might assign the exterior component of a wall style to a specific Class, and assign textures or 2D graphic attributes to that class. Changes to the Class definition affect all objects of that Class, without having to select them.

Furthermore, "container" objects like groups, symbols, or walls (with respect to components) cannot have Layers assigned to their components—it is nonsensical in Vectorworks for a symbol to contain multiple objects of different Layers, since Layers are addresses, not attributes.

For example, consider a symbol of a lavatory. The basin might be in a plumbing class, the base cabinet in which it resides in a millwork class, and the light overhead and centered on it in a lighting class. Move the symbol as a whole, and all components move with it, such that the light and base cabinet are always centered on the sink basin. The symbol lies on a Layer (say, a ground floor Layer) whose upper and lower boundaries are defined by a Story. Without Classes, it would be tedious to have different graphic attributes for plumbing, millwork, and lighting, and it would be impossible to, say, turn on lighting and grey out plumbing, and turn off millwork. So the matrix of Classes and Layers together create powerful controls of object visibilities and graphic controls.

Comment by Dave Olufs on November 19, 2011 at 12:07pm

Thanks Francois and Don...

I've worked for years with just 'layer' applications (PowerCADD) and I show where and what in layers. I've used ArchiCAD with stories and layers and never really understood the need for classes. With that said, would classes be subcategories and sus-subcategories of layers or even more descriptive?

I've heard some say for better control with VW, set many things to classes. For example wall components redefined as classes can allow better control of finishes...?

I'm sure these comments show my VW inexperience but I want to get to the same level of competence I have with PowerCADD...

Thanks!

Comment by François Lévy on November 19, 2011 at 9:18am

Dave,

Stories do not replace design layers, but augment them. Classes do not change in 2012 and are not like layers, nor have they ever been. As Don reiterated, Layers are "where" and Classes are "what".

 

Stories control the upper and lower default boundaries of objects such as stairs and walls. One or more Layers (e.g., slab, main, ceiling) can be assigned to a Story in order to establish the Layers' relative Z value. One does not draw "in" a Story like one draws in a Layer; the Story only exists to establish relative Layer relationships. You could do an architectural project without using Stories, but for multistory projects especially, Stories are a convenient organizational device.

 

See Don Ward's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnYBy-JMkr4

Comment by Dave Olufs on November 17, 2011 at 4:04pm

Where do stories fit in...  Do they take the place of layers?  And do layers become more like classes?  

Comment by Don Marquardt on November 16, 2011 at 8:43pm

Francois is right, but to put it a bit more simply (from my own epiphany a while back), Layers are WHERE it is (1st Floor) and a class is WHAT it is (Furniture, wall, etc.). Each class can be defined (color,line weight,etc) an deach Layer is also defined, but for different attributes. Click on the Layer icon on the Menu bar or right click a layer on the navigation palette to see. In your table example, you might make  Buffet Table the Layer, and Leg, Top, Slider, brace, etc the classes. Symbols are a different animal. Make one for repetitive elements, such as the same leg shape to avoid drawing the same thing multiple times. And for goodness sake, read the start-up manuals and do some of the tutorials on youtube or the knowlege base etc.! You can't just jump in and be productive without SOME practice, especially coming off of Autocad.

Comment by François Lévy on November 16, 2011 at 3:24pm

Layers most closely correspond to AutoCAD files: they are "places". E.g.: draw all objects associated with the ground floor of your project in the ground floor layer.

Classes represent the typology of objects, or "what" they are. They therefore most closely correspond to AutoCAD layers. In the above example, control the graphic attributes and visibility of objects by class (plumbing, electrical, millwork, etc.

 
François Lévy, AIA, AIAA
M.Arch, MSE
Author, BIM in Small-Scale Sustainable Design
Find it at Amazon: http://is.gd/UJPFta

http://www.francoislevy.com
Twitter: @Francois_Levy

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