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Building with 3D solids

Hi,

I am trying to build tabbed and socket joints into planar forms for later assembly of a sculpture, think mortise and tenon but in steel.

However, problems occur.

If I subtract a tenon which projects into it's adjoining form I would expect it to leave the socket in that form, but of course it disappears! Leaving me with only one form.
It seems rather pointless to then have to duplicate and repeat the process to get both forms back again.

Am I using the wrong tool or method?

Advice appreciated

Cheers,

Andy

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee Allen on February 20, 2010 at 8:18am

No other way that I know of. When you subtract one form from another, the subtraction becomes part of the final product. This does allow you to later edit the subtraction by double clicking the final form.

Rather than duplicate, you can also copy and paste-in-place.

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 23, 2010 at 1:03pm

Thanks Kevin, paste in place is working for me to make joints, I had only used 2D drafting before and the 3D virtual world is at present a great source of frustration compared to my "real world" construction experiences.
However, perseverance is all.
Cheers
Andy

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee Allen on February 23, 2010 at 2:25pm

Happy to help. I prefer 3D, and it does take a bit to get the mind to shift.

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 24, 2010 at 8:58am

Indeed Kevin, I am finding it a mind bender,
I keep starting new fresh drawings because I get lost!
Not being able to always see the ground plane is a real problem and left/right/back etc... don't stay as such.
I wish there were a "lay all the parts on the studio floor" command.
Funny how all the simple questions are never in manuals or books.
This objects only made of 13 parts, maybe that's the problem.
Keep going....
Cheers,
Andy

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Permalink Reply by Scott C. Parker on February 24, 2010 at 11:46am

Hi Andy,
I find this method fairly quick:
I turn off offset duplicates. Then, once I have my solids set up, I hit Command (control) - D to duplicate the solid that goes away before I do the subtraction. therefore, once the subtraction is completed the original item is still there.
Hope this helps, Scott

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee Allen on February 24, 2010 at 1:42pm

Scott,

This must be a lighting designer thing. I was working with a lighting design colleague the other day and he was shocked that I have offset duplicates on. I would say that I almost never use the Duplicate Command and favor Duplicate Array. So, if I want a stacked duplicate, I set those parameters.

My colleague duplicates instruments and then Moves them, while I prefer positioning with Duplicate Array. Both work, it is just interesting who chooses which methodology and why.

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 24, 2010 at 3:39pm

Hi Scott & Kevin,
thanks for the input.
I'll try that out, however editing the shapes is getting easier now.
Easier than their changing into "uneditable" forms without me knowing why!
After pasting all my shapes into another drawing out of frustration with the darned process, I am getting "uncomputable geometries" and "empty soilds"
Why so many types of 3d object and how to flatten/un-extrude everything so I can start again from scratch?
I traced my parts from a scanned drawing then extruded them to give them the thickness of the steel.
Can I get back to this state? I tried turning them into polygons as per my book but these don't want to "clip or add surface" - which is how I make their neighbours.
Drawing a slab to build on seems to help orientation though.
Hey ho,
Andy

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 24, 2010 at 5:40pm

When is a solid not a solid?
I have subtracted a "solid subtraction" from a "solid subtraction" to fit two forms snugly together along an edge.
However, I am unable to make further subtractions to modify this form by either the above method or by subtracting an extruded circle to make a hole?
Either, I get a dialogue box which says "un-computable.....try to change the geometry..." or simply nothing happens at all.
As 2D forms "add/clip surface" works pretty well, but once the shapes become extruded to give them thickness I cannot seem to find a reliable method.
On paper here are the parts:

on a table here is a thing made of the parts:

Should be simple be make the 2D file into 3D model I hear you say!
So, what is the method?
Alas, getting nowhere.
Any ideas guys and girls?

Andy

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 25, 2010 at 5:03am

Sorry folks back again!
I have gone back to my 2D draft I used for the cnc .dxf.
Now, if I begin again to make these into solids, which method can be applied across all of them so I don't end up with different types of 3D forms I can assemble in VW without the previous conflicts?
Does seem odd that the application has incompatible 3D objects within it.
How does the 3D reshape tool work by the way? Doesn't seem to do anything on an extruded forms.
I have found VW good for 2D but so far 3D terribly annoying!
It would be so useful to have a design aid to resolve/edit joins and collisions in 3D before I invest in materials.
Some pointers would be really useful from some old hands.

Andy

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee Allen on February 25, 2010 at 5:14am

I would make each flat piece in 2D using Add and Clip Surface to edit the form. I would then extrude the form and create a symbol which I could place and angle with precision in the OIP.

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Permalink Reply by Andy on February 25, 2010 at 5:45am

Thanks Kevin,

So turning the extruded forms into symbols will create a series of uniform object types which can then be edited in 3D - for for example extending an edge to meet another or making a hole through for a tab/tenon?

Sounds good I'll try it out.

Whats the OIP by the way?

Cheers and thanks for the helping me find a way through!

Andy

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Lee Allen on February 25, 2010 at 8:59am

The OIP is the Object Information Palette.

Looking at the image, I don't see why you would need to edit these shapes in 3D, although it would be possible. Based on the images, these look like simple extrusions of basic shapes that I would create out of 2D primitives and then using the Add and Clip Commands.

Turning the finished object into a symbol allows you greater control over absolute placement in the OIP. IMO, a symbol can be more effectively placed than a 3D object.